Courtney Wooge, President of FCIS – RV insurance specialists, sat down with us to explain all things RV insurance. Whether you’re a full-time RVer, part-time RVer, or still planning, Courtney offers up valuable information about how RV insurance works and how to get the most out of your RV insurance policy.
Show Notes
This information applies to RVers, van-lifers, skoolies and more.
To learn more about FCIS, visit them at: www.fcisinsurance.com
To get a RV insurance quote through FCIS, visit: www.rvadvantage.com
To learn more about Escapees RV Club, visit us at our website or on our social media profiles below.
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This webinar was recorded as a live broadcast on July 8, 2020.
For those who prefer blog posts to videos, we condensed Courtney and Brandon’s conversation to an easy-to-read article! Click the button below to read Courtney’s seven things all RVers should know about insurance.
Transcript
Brandon Hatcher:
Hi. Welcome to Escapees RV Club Webinars. I’m Brandon
Hatcher. I work in the marketing department for Escapees RV Club, and I’m here
tonight with Courtney, the president of FCIS Insurance, and we’re here to talk
about RV insurance and what not. So Courtney, why don’t you tell us a little
bit about how you got started in the RV insurance business?
Courtney Wooge:
Sure. Thanks, Brandon, and welcome everybody. I know this
isn’t everybody’s favorite topic, but I will try to keep it as entertaining as
possible because it is certainly necessary. As Brandon said, my name is
Courtney Wooge, and I’ve been a part of the Escapees rallies and club for my
eight-year career here. My father founded FCIS Insurance in 1978 which was the
same year the Escapees started, and I purchased it eight years ago and worked
for a few years and then became president six years ago. Our main office is
here in Forest City, Iowa and I also have another location out in Collingswood,
New Jersey that has some staff as well. I am an RVer myself so am very active
in this lifestyle, and our niche here at the agency is RV insurance, obviously,
and we are licensed in every state except for one, and that is Hawaii. Because
I’ve been there once. I don’t know about you, Brandon, but I didn’t see many
personal RVs.
Brandon Hatcher:
I haven’t been there, but I wasn’t planning to take my RV
when I went.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, it can be quite expensive to get across the water,
but we are licensed nationwide and we’ve been doing specialized RV insurance
since 1981 and the reason how our agency got into the RV insurance space is
because my father founded and offered the first replacement cost RV policy,
which essentially helped the depreciation on those folks that buy a brand new
unit.
Brandon Hatcher:
Nice.
Courtney Wooge:
For me personally, my wife and four kids travel around in
our RV, and get to meet a lot of fun people. We were supposed to be going to
the rallies this summer but COVID-19 had other ideas, so we’re all doing these
video platforms and having some fun.
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, well at least we have this to share and we’re not
stuck alone.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I understand Brandon you want to talk
about a very important topic to the Escapees Club, because you guys have a lot
of full-timers.
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, and full-timers, even though we’re in the same
vehicles as part-timers, we’re a little bit different out here on the road, so
we feel like it’s important that people understand full-timing and full-timing
insurance.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, so that’s a lot of people will try and go to their
local agent, and I know a lot of insurance agents in this world. They’re all
great people, and we get a lot of referrals from local agents specifically for
the full-timers because we have the products for the full-time community. I’ll
start, Brandon, with the definition of what’s considered a full-timer, and
that’s 150 nights. So if you sleep in your RV 150 nights or more in any given
year, you are technically what the insurance carrier calls a full-timer.
What
does that actually mean? Well, on that policy you get what’s called
full-timer’s liability, and that’s very important because that is broad based
liability that acts a lot like your homeowner’s insurance liability that gives
you liability outside when you’re doing activities. I give the example of
golfing. You’re out golfing and your ball hits another house or hits somebody
else. Your full-timer’s liability will actually extend to those events.
Brandon Hatcher:
Alright, that’s interesting. I’ve been a full-timer for
six years. I’m sure Kerensa knows, but I didn’t know that.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, my management team at home typically pays the bills
and reads the literature as well. Except for when it comes to insurance. That’s
my deal. But there are further of 150 nights. There are two types of
full-timers. There are ones that are a 365 full-timer. They do not sleep in
another location. They do not have a condo. They do not have a cabin. That is
rated one way, and as well the person that just travels a lot in six months of
the year theirself and the other six months of the year maybe they’re up in
Iowa and they have a condo or something up here. So you’re still a full-timer
if you’re sleeping more than 150 nights in the RV, but if you’re no stick and
bricks that’s a 365’er, but if you still have an address that is a house or a
location, you’re rated less because logic says you’re going to stay there for
some of the nights throughout the year.
Brandon Hatcher:
I’m going to put you on the spot. Can you ballpark a
percentage that you would pay more if you didn’t have a house versus having a
house?
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, obviously we get that question a lot. I can tell you
it is definitely less, but it depends on where that house is that you’re going
to, right? If it’s in Texas, they’re probably going to say, “Well, you’re
going to stay more time in your RV.” But if it’s in a place like in the
North, they know you’ve got to travel up there and it’s probably going to be a
little cheaper, because your garaging ZIP code is less expensive in more wide
open spaces. As far as a percentage, I can’t, aside from somebody calling in.
That’s a good question.
Brandon Hatcher:
It’s like trying to ask a lawyer for a yes or no answer.
Courtney Wooge:
That’s exactly right. Yeah, that’s exactly right.
Brandon Hatcher:
I think what shocks a lot of people is you may have a
travel trailer or something, and it may cost you almost nothing to insure if
you have a house and it’s not full-time. Then all of a sudden you go on the
road, and there’s this expense you didn’t quite expect how much insurance might
cost.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, for sure. And yes, is a full-timer’s liability for
that rate a little more expensive than a policy like mine that only has 30-day
usage? Yes, but you have the right coverage, and you buy insurance in the event
you have a claim, and when the adjuster asks or sees that you’ve used it and
are a full-timer, I don’t want to be the one to try and uncover that situation
and try to help get that claim. There would be no question if you have that
liability. Everything would flow through normal. So it’s important to just be
upfront and honest, and that full-timer, typically they’re paying less for
their homeowner’s insurance, because they don’t have a big house anymore and
they don’t need to insure all that, so they’re saving on their homeowner’s
because they’re living in their RV.
Brandon Hatcher:
If you guys have any questions for Courtney about
insurance, RV insurance, throw them in the chat and I’ll catch them when I see
them. I’m just going to pepper you with my questions.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah.
Brandon Hatcher:
Actual cash value, replacement value, and then agreed
value. How do those work?
Courtney Wooge:
Another great question. That is a typical RV policy, so
you don’t have to be a full-timer to get that particular provision. Those
settlement options are very near and dear to my heart, so the first thing is
total loss replacement, which is what my father offered the first policy with
Foremost Insurance back in 1981. When you buy a brand new unit or you’re the
original owner of one that is up to 18 months old, you can get replacement
cost, and that is for the first five model years, if you have a total loss on
your RV, the insurance carrier will purchase for you a new like make and model
RV to make you whole, and in some cases potentially a little better because
you’re going to be getting a brand new RV. How that came up is because of, as
we all know when we buy an RV, we know it’s going to depreciate pretty strong
on a brand new one, and that really is the coverage to help offset that
depreciation with respect to having an insurance loss.
Now
the other cool thing about it is years six through ten of that policy is
actually purchase price guarantee, so let’s use round figures of $75,000. You
purchase your RV for 75,000. The first five model years, it’s full replacement
cost. Years six through ten, because you have that documented bill of sale, and
you have a total loss, the carriers going to provide you $75,000 towards the
purchase of a new RV.
Brandon Hatcher:
Oh, nice.
Courtney Wooge:
Versus what you said, the third thing is ACV. A typical
actual cash value policy that is normally had by all of the captive carriers.
They will just give you the settlement option of what it’s valued at a time of
loss. So a six year old coach that was purchased for 75,000 new is definitely
going to not be worth $75,000 anymore. It’s going to be probably worth half of
that, if that. So that’s the big … Then there’s this agreed value piece which
we’ll get into when we talk about conversions because that’s your second topic.
When somebody does a remodel or converts their van, their bus, whatever. If you
have a value you want to lock in today on a used one, we can lock in that value
for a certain number of years depending on the carrier. You just have to prove
its value. You can get it appraised, you can use the bill of sale at the
dealership, or you can have a third party. Well I said the appraisal I guess.
Third party appraiser. Just have it appraised and we can use that as the
figure.
Brandon Hatcher:
Nice. Let’s talk about our stuff in our RV, because I know
a lot of these plans have some coverage in them but I know what we carry on our
RV today, it’s not usually enough.
Courtney Wooge:
Yep, that’s great segue. That was the third thing I had on
my list what makes an RV policy different than an auto policy is we can put up
to $99,000 of personal contents on an RV policy in $1,000 increments. So that’s
step one. Your normal auto carrier can’t put personal contents, because you
dump your car out, you’ve got change and ChapStick and loose items. We can even
go further. If you want to schedule items like you do on a homeowner’s policy,
if you have a diamond ring, if you have expensive camera equipment, if you’ve
got expensive kayaks, we can schedule that so that way that value is locked in
if it’s stolen or you have a loss on your RV.
Brandon Hatcher:
Nice. Sorry I keep saying nice. Need to stop that.
Everybody drink when I say nice. Vicki actually had a question that relates to
this. She has a travel trailer and she’s pulling it with a Tahoe. If she were
to … What do you put the extra policy on, the extra scheduled items? Do you put
it on the trailer or the truck?
Courtney Wooge:
Definitely on the trailer, because if you’re a full-timer
and you don’t have a homeowner’s policy to place those extra items on, then
that’s what the RV policy is designed for. You can add personal contents.
Again, up to $99,000 worth of equipment as personal contents. Your Tahoe policy
or your standard auto policy, most carriers do not have that personal contents
additions. Some are starting to, but certainly not to the value of $99,000 that
we can for an RV policy.
Brandon Hatcher:
Now she is chiming in here. She’s not a full-timer though,
so would that go on her homeowner’s policy then?
Courtney Wooge:
You can do either or, Vicki. You can do either or. You can
put them on your homeowner’s policy if you own a home and you want to put that
on your homeowner’s policy, or if it stays in your travel trailer and that’s
where it’s going to have a loss at and that’s where it’s going to happen, then
you certainly can put it on the RV policy and schedule that on as personal
contents with your travel trailer policy.
Brandon Hatcher:
And she would still be covered if she took her computer
with her in the car or on a hike and it got stolen or something, right?
Courtney Wooge:
Yes, absolutely.
Brandon Hatcher:
Nice.
Courtney Wooge:
That’s correct.
Brandon Hatcher:
I did it again.
Courtney Wooge:
The key to that whole thing, Brandon, is just document it.
I’m going to sound like a broken record here, but if you have a concern that,
specifically a laptop is an expensive laptop or cam equipment, take some
pictures of it. We’ll definitely put the right value of it, and we’ll have
that. In the event of a loss, we can easily give that to the adjuster and say,
“Here’s a picture of what was stolen or damaged. Here’s the value of it.
Let’s help this customer out.”
Brandon Hatcher:
I noticed when we were signing up for our first policy, it
had a lot of personal property coverage, but it was by category. So it was like
$1,000 for computers, and $1,000 for cameras, but we had nice cameras that
would obviously go over that, so we ended up scheduling that. Is that still
happening, or do you-
Courtney Wooge:
On an RV policy, it’s a little more loose. What you’re
talking about is a homeowner’s policy that has what’s called an ACORD form. I
don’t want to totally geek out with insurance, but on a homeowner’s ACORD
standard form, most carriers have baseline limits for different things that are
naturally in a home. Like $200 in cash, so much for cam equipment. So one way
if you’re a heavy RVer, there aren’t any standard types of equipment to have
values on. You just simply tell us the value, document it, and that’s what we
put on it.
Brandon Hatcher:
Okay. Then just one last question to round this out. Would
a renter’s policy also cover your trailer equipment?
Courtney Wooge:
It can. Yeah, it can. A renter’s policy is essentially in
my world still a homeowner’s policy. It’s an HO, I forget what the insurance,
HO4 or 5. You just don’t own the home. All you’re covering is your contents
inside the home. Again, in that circumstance, let us know who the carrier is
and how it’s scheduled, and it may make better sense to put it on the RV
policy. It may not make sense with rate. Leave that on your renter’s. We would
want to know the entire picture.
Brandon Hatcher:
Great. Did it again. Alright, so I’m going to bounce back
to some earlier questions, unless you want to geek out on full-timer’s
insurance more.
Courtney Wooge:
Well back to full-timers, I want to highlight one more
thing Brandon before we take another question. If you have a claim and you’re a
365 or even a heavy user and you can’t use your RV, guess where you’re going to
need to stay.
Brandon Hatcher:
At a hotel.
Courtney Wooge:
At a hotel or someplace, so a normal auto policy does not
have what we call loss of use. I take that back. They do. It’s just very, very
minimal. On an RV policy, and specifically full-timers, we always recommend
that you have a big coverage for loss of use. You can go up to $7,500 worth of
coverage. If your RV needs to be fixed for a whole month, or two months, it
could get quite spendy finding other arrangements to stay. So 750 is the least
amount we put on policies, if you’re just a casual user like me. If you’re a
full-timer we recommend you go to at least 1,500, and that’ll typically cover a
couple weeks in a hotel if your RV needs to be fixed in a shop somewhere.
Brandon Hatcher:
What was that called again?
Courtney Wooge:
Loss of use, or emergency expense are the two insurance
terms that are used on your policy. I do see a question if I could just jump to
it there is, can you bundle auto and umbrella and home? The answer is yes. We
have five different carriers that we look at the whole circumstance, and what
you’re getting at is, is it cheaper if you bundle? And again, depending on the
state, it can be. We always recommend to the full-timer, let’s get your RV and
your toad at a minimum, because if you’re involved in an accident, guess what
it’s going to affect. Both of those. So you really want one carrier, and a lot
of times it’s one deductible with that one accident.
Brandon Hatcher:
Now just since we’re talking about toad, and for those of
you that are new to RVing, toad is the car that’s towed behind you, and we refer
to it as a T-O-A-D toad. When you’re towing a car behind a motor home and
you’re in an accident, is that all covered through the motor home’s insurance
since you’re towing it, or is it different?
Courtney Wooge:
The liability would be. If the car comes unhooked and it
veers off and it hits somebody, that answer is yes. But the physical damage is
not, to the auto. Now, if that auto comes unhooked and hits something else,
that something else, there’s your liability coverage. So that’s why we always
recommend if you’re doing that, let’s get your motor home and your auto. It’s
two policies, but let’s place them with the best carrier together so that way
you have liability and physical damage on both of the vehicles and you have one
claim in any accident.
But I
understand with premium and price, some people like to split their auto off,
and we get that, but your question is valid, Brandon. Yes, anything you tow
behind a powered vehicle, your liability is covered from that powered vehicle.
Same thing with a truck to a trailer. Your truck’s liability policy, your
truck’s policy will cover the liability when it’s hooked up, but guess what.
When you’re camping and those jacks are down, you need a specific RV policy.
That’s why of course we always advocate, if you have a fifth wheel, if you have
a travel trailer, put an RV-specific policy on that so that way your physical
damage, your campsite liability. You get all those homeowner’s provisions when
you’re camping in it.
Brandon Hatcher:
That makes a lot of sense. Someone had a question here. I
thought it’d be a good time just to square it away. You are FCIS, but you’re
also RV Advantage.
Courtney Wooge:
That’s right. This is a constant battle between my
marketing department, right? Who are we? Our parent name is FCIS Insurance, but
what I found out when I joined the business is that nobody knew we were an RV
insurance specialist. Some people knew, but for marketing purposes, when you
get our policy, it says FCIS Insurance on it. That’s our legal name where we
have taken to market. We also do other types of insurance other than RV. We do
some commercial. We’ll do businesses. We do life. We do some health, umbrella.
We do all kinds of different policies, but our main niche in the nationwide
world is RV insurance, so what I did is I just trademarked another brand name
called RV Advantage. RV Advantage, if you go to that website, that’s sole
purpose is just to collect your information so we can give you a quote. And
digitally, if you go to FCISInsurance.com and you click on RV Insurance, it’s
going to take you to RVAdvantage.com.
Brandon Hatcher:
And you are not an insurer specifically, right? I mean,
the question here was are there more than two insurance companies, or do you
operate like an independent agency, or do you underwrite these RV policies?
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, I should back up. We are an independent insurance
agency by distribution channel, so there are three ways to buy insurance in the
United States. Number one, you can go to direct. You can go to GEICO.com. You
can go to Progressive.com. You can put in your information and you’ll get
somebody on the 13th story in a big city that probably knows nothing about RVs.
You can buy it online. Second way you can buy it is through what’s called a
captive agent. I’ve got a lot of good friends in that captive world where they
only sell one product. That is State Farm, Allstate, American Family. Those
agents you see that have one carrier.
I and
our agency is an independent agent that represents multiple carriers, and we have
a niche just in the RV insurance space. In the RV space, we represent five
different carriers, and I’ll go through them. We’ve got Foremost. We’ve got
Nationwide. We’ve got National General, and we’ve got Progressive, and Safeco.
So depending on the state that you’re in and you domicile and you register and
you garage your unit, we have multiple options that we can present to you and
say, “Hey, we as an agent think this is the best for your situation.”
Does that make sense?
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, that clears that up. That’s why we know you as the
person who can find insurance when other people can’t, because you’ve got
tentacles out there that can look for things.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, that’s the point of this education. Full-timer’s RV
insurance is challenging to find. We get calls daily saying, “I tried to
talk to my buddy that I golf with that’s an agent, and he can’t get
full-timer’s coverage for me.”
Brandon Hatcher:
I’ve even had issues. I’ve called Progressive direct and
asked for full-timer coverage, and the person’s, you know, they were just
reading their script, but they were like, “We don’t offer full-timer
coverage.” And then I go through you and I have full-timer coverage. It’s
just a matter of like you said, the person answering the phone doesn’t get hit
with that question a lot, so they don’t know where to look for it.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, exactly and I don’t want to toot my horn too much,
but we do this all day everyday, and twice on Sundays, so it’s just kind of
what we do.
Brandon Hatcher:
Did you hear that? He’s open on Sunday.
Courtney Wooge:
If you happen to be one that knows my cell phone. I keep
that mostly private. We are open Saturdays though. That is important to know.
We are open Saturdays.
Brandon Hatcher:
I’m going to just jump back to an earlier question from
Debbie. Kind of specific, but they have a vehicle that I guess according to the
brochure it’s a class C, but according to the VIN number it’s a class B, and
they heard that maybe it would be cheaper to insure if it were considered a
class C, and is that worth fighting about?
Courtney Wooge:
The answer is yes, so that’s where we talk to underwriters
and we take pictures and we take what you believe it to be, and we talk to our
specific RV insurance underwriters in saying, “This is Debbie’s risk. We
think this should be officially a class C.” If that’s what you
wholeheartedly believe it is, then we have access to talk to the underwriters
and try to get that done. But if you’re asking which one’s cheaper, again, without
quoting it and as a B and a C, I’d love to be able to spit that out but we do
hundreds of quotes a week and the models change, and believe it or not
throughout this COVID situation, a lot of our customers may have gotten some
form of a credit or refund because the usage went down, but now it’s sprung
back the other way where everybody’s starting to use their RV again because
it’s safe and it’s a way to get around. So this market is interesting and I
love tracking it because we’re told everything just went like this, and then
everything was like, “Well wait a minute. We can use this RV, and let’s go
buy one because it’s safe.”
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, we’re seeing the same thing. It’s like all of the
sudden, people don’t want to get in planes and stuff and it’s a nice way to get
around. I’m in a cabin right now, but the RV that’s sitting outside is a nice
way to get around and stay in your own space.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. I drove to see my son that’s in the United States
Army in Washington, DC a month and a half ago, and it was awesome. It was me
and the truckers that were on the road, and you almost had the road to yourself
and it was cool.
Brandon Hatcher:
Let’s jump to the next topic, and then I’ll circle back
and grab some of these questions but I see some questions here that already
relate to it, and it’s something that we have a lot of friends that are buying
vans, converting vans, or buying, looking at buses and stuff and it’s kind of
the thing to do nowadays is to customize and build your own deal, so wanted to
talk to you about insurance for conversions.
Courtney Wooge:
Absolutely. So back to your settlement option question,
this is the perfect example of those folks that need an agreed value policy. If
you’re taking something where a regular agent puts in the VIN number and
they’re like, “Well this is telling me it’s only worth $2,000,” where
you know you’ve got 30 more thousand dollars into it. So the whole trick to
doing that when you redo that process in the insurance company’s eyes is, was
it professionally done? And that’s kind of an open ended statement because a
lot of people don’t take it to a dealership or an approved third party and hire
them to do everything. A lot of people have the skills to do the plumbing and
the electric and everything else to make an RV. So I just talked to some of my
agents today to get the latest and greatest details, and they said with
pictures and proof that it was done correctly, to their underwriting knowledge,
as long as you don’t have duct tape and it looks like it’s been patched
together with some low level countertops and there’s big gaps everywhere. If it
looks professionally done throughout the process, then we can typically get you
an agreed value policy, if you can provide that worth. Give us some receipts,
give us some values that we can agree to, and then you lock in that value if it
has a total loss.
Brandon Hatcher:
So the key there would be just shoot tons of photos while
you’re building.
Courtney Wooge:
Absolutely, and that’s even good to do outside the
insurance world if you want to go sell it one day. Because that person’s going
to pull up the VIN on NADA and say, “Well here’s what it’s worth without
this stuff. What do you have in it?” And when you show that transformation
picture, then I think you would have a better chance to sell it. Then also you
have those pictures for insurance purposes, so the whole thing is to do it that
way.
The
other thing you can do Brandon is there are third party appraisers, and I’ll
give the Airstreamers as an example, because the Airstream trailer is the
perfect example of people that buy those things and redo them, because they
typically hold their value. So there are third party appraisals that will come
out just like a house appraisal and put a value of what they think it’s worth.
Insurance carriers will accept that as locking in the agreed value policy.
Brandon Hatcher:
That’s nice to know. I didn’t realize there was as much
flexibility there. I thought they had books and they just kind of go by the
book and that’s what it is.
Courtney Wooge:
Well again, candidly, and again, not to toot my own horn,
but we have access to those specific RV underwriters and we know what channel
to get it into, or if you happen to call direct or somebody that isn’t understanding
of the RV lifestyle, you’re going to run into some roadblocks. It’s not
impossible. Not here to tell you that, but there are going to be a few
roadblocks in your way, and that’s why if you don’t use me, use an RV insurance
specialist that just knows the industry.
Brandon Hatcher:
Are there requirements for what’s considered an RV versus
just a van? Like bathroom, kitchen, that kind of thing?
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, self-contained. What are some of the terms I’ve
seen? Self-contained bathroom, cooking, and/or bedroom facilities. So again,
it’s a little broad. I would say if you have a bedroom and/or a kitchen or
bathroom, and it’s self-contained, that’s an RV. And you’ve got some value in
it, right? Some people when they redo it, and if it burns up or if something
happens to it and they don’t care about the physical damage of it, well yeah,
we can always put liability only on it to make it drivable and to meet the
state requirements. If you don’t care the money you put into it, if it’s just
got a bedroom or it’s just got a small bathroom. We can get you a liability
policy, but it’s not going to have all those RV provisions on it.
Brandon Hatcher:
Okay. So yeah, Debbie was asking. I think we answered this
pretty well, but how do you insure a self built high top van for about eight
months of full-timing? So take lots of pictures, document it, call Courtney.
Courtney Wooge:
You bet. Yeah, you know, you buy a Mercedes-Benz chassis
or a Dodge ProMaster. I get it. We have those people call us everyday, and I
would love to have the time to do that and I totally get why people do it.
Just, the insurance go is going to want to make sure it’s been done right, so
take lots of pictures, keep your receipts, and we can get you a policy for
sure.
Brandon Hatcher:
Then the other side of conversions we see a lot are school
buses, or airport shuttle buses. We talked about this before. I know they’re a
little bit of an issue lately.
Courtney Wooge:
They are, and I have that on my list. If the VIN brings up
a school bus, if it’s like a Thomas, or every carrier has their different
blacklisted VINs right now but at the moment, Schoolies, we cannot accept new
business on our carriers if you want physical damage in an RV policy. We can
get you liability only, again, but if you’ve redone it here recently and it’s a
Thomas or a school bus type Schoolie, the carriers have had lots of claims from
what I’ve understood and if you currently have a policy they’re keeping you on
the books, but anything new, and this just happened within the last month.
They’re saying, “We’re not going to write any new ones.”
Now,
am I advocating to bring that back? Of course I am. I’m trying to convince
them. Okay, well the way to do that is just of course take those premium
dollars up, which nobody likes. But I’m telling you, the insurance carrier is
not going to lose money for too long before they start making a change. So at
the moment we’re in this little weird spot with Schoolies, and it’ll be
corrected, but at the moment we can’t allow any new business, and that at the
moment is just unfortunate.
Brandon Hatcher:
Even from just liability?
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, from a liability standpoint, we still can. So if you
want liability only, we can. It’s just going to be a bare bones. It may be more
expensive than what you’re thinking because of it’s a school bus.
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, it’s a big, heavy vehicle. It can do a lot of
damage.
Courtney Wooge:
Absolutely. Absolutely. But an RV policy, we’re not
allowed to put those provisions on.
Brandon Hatcher:
That’s too bad. Hopefully that works out.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, but your Silver Eagles or your Prevost, those types
of buses that are designed for an RV chassis, yeah, we’re still open for
business for that. It’s just specifically those that were originally intended
to be built as a school bus.
Brandon Hatcher:
Then Scott has a question about converting a cargo
trailer, so do you have trouble with that?
Courtney Wooge:
We have had trouble with it. It’s not impossible, but
again, it has to go through another step or two of underwriting, and we can’t
just key it in like we do your RV or my RV, Brandon. Right? You put in the
year, make, and model. It comes up. The system knows exactly what it is. So for
these conversions, we just have to go through another couple steps and it may
take a couple extra days of underwriting to get you an answer yes or no. But
yeah, just like converting a van or a bus, people like you Scott are looking at
a trailer to put a self-contained bathroom, bedroom, cooking facilities in
there, and I get it. You’re going to want to insure that correctly so you don’t
lose your value if something happens to it.
Brandon Hatcher:
And the second part, is it cheaper to insure if he gets it
retitled in South Dakota?
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. The reason why people title those things in South
Dakota or Montana is for tax purposes, and here about two years ago, insurance
carriers started rating more on where it’s garaged. So this brings up a whole
address situation with RV policies. The olden days of tagging it, registering
it in Montana and South Dakota, and having that as where your policy, that is
starting to go away. The carrier cares. The question that’s going to be asked
for underwriting is, where do you keep your RV when you’re not using it? And if
you’re a full-timer using it all the time, well then you’ve got the full-timers
risk and that’s everywhere.
But if
you’re garaging it in Colorado but you’re registering it in South Dakota, no
problem. You get your registration and your license plates and you’re domiciled
in South Dakota, but your policy is actually in Colorado because that’s where
your unit is at most the time, and you may get your mail for a premium reminder
at Escapees mail forwarding out of Livingston, Texas. So I hope I’ve answered
that, Scott. With respect to if it’s cheaper, we don’t know until we run those
different scenarios, and trust me. Over the last two years, all the insurance
carriers know exactly why people are doing that, which is fine. It’s all above
board. You’ve titled it in one state but yet you keep it in another state.
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, I think there’s a few questions about location,
yeah, it really just depends on what’s happened in that location in the past. I
know ours went up a lot in Texas because Texas had a lot of hailstorms. We
didn’t have any claim, though.
Courtney Wooge:
Yep, that’s exactly right. Because technology, the same
thing we’re doing right here, insurance carriers are also spending money on
getting real particular in using big data to understand. We’ve had risks where
somebody, one customer had one ZIP code, and one ZIP code away the premium was
double. Because that ZIP code had a higher theft rate and just a higher crime
rate, and it was just one ZIP code away. It doesn’t seem like much, but one ZIP
code could just be one block away where the line is at. So they’re using big
data, and my answer as an agent to that is, just tell us your circumstance and
we’ll get to it so that way you’re insured correctly. We have the options for
it, and if your circumstance changes, give us a call, or email us. We have a
full customer experience team. We get a lot of people that go from full-time to
not full-time back to full-time. They’re going back and forth, and every time
their situation changes they just call us, and no big deal. I can promise we’ll
be friendly and we’ll try to be understanding of your situation.
Brandon Hatcher:
I know when we were looking at insurance in Florida,
because we moved domicile from Texas to Florida, the Miami ZIP code is one
number different than the Bushnell ZIP code, and I accidentally plugged that in
and I was like, “Whoa,” and decided to stay. But then Bushnell,
Florida being on the west side of Florida doesn’t get so much hurricane damage,
so the insurance is pretty nice there.
Courtney Wooge:
Yes. Even though RVs are mobile, the insurance carrier,
they still want to rate it based on where that is garaged. It’s called the
garaging address. Where you’re going to be at the campground, where you’re
going to be keeping it most of the time. Because that’s where it’s going to
have a loss, typically. And back to the South Dakota guy, if you register in
South Dakota but yet you’re in Florida and you have a loss in Florida, well
guess what the adjuster’s going to ask you. “Hey, this is a South Dakota
policy. Are you just down here for a few weeks?” Again, most people are
honest and the campground would probably, you know, “Hey, this guy’s been
here for four months,” right? That’s the reason why you want to keep things
right.
Brandon Hatcher:
Well if you guys have any more questions feel free to drop
them in the chat. I see one more up above. It’s a little bit in the weeds but I
thought let’s give them a freebie.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s do a get in the weeds one. Let’s
see if I can address it.
Brandon Hatcher:
It’s not that bad. Now I’m trying to find it again in my
list here. Here. This one’s an easy one, and then there’s another one. They
have a … Sorry.
Courtney Wooge:
It’s says, “My Safeco auto liability, in the policy
it says the trailer must be on the declarations page for the liability to
extend to the trailer. Does that make sense?” It does, because some
carriers request that so they know, but depending on the state. I don’t know
what state you’re in, Vicki. That could be a state requirement, and that would
come out in our questioning depending on the state. Some states do and some
states don’t.
Brandon Hatcher:
I think she’s in Texas. Gulf Coast.
Courtney Wooge:
Okay. So again, I don’t have my into the weeds rating
sheet in front of me, but I’ll give an example of Iowa. In Iowa, you don’t have
to list what you’re pulling behind your truck. Your liability just extends, but
in the state of Texas, Safeco has to follow those what are called DOI rules,
Department of Insurance. They request that you list what you’re going to be
pulling behind something, and that must be a state requirement.
Brandon Hatcher:
Okay. Here’s one that’s a bit more in the weeds, but it’s
a good one. I’ll have to read it to you because it’s too long to put on screen,
but they had a 2004 Montana Fifth Wheel, and in 2006 the hitch box, the welds
broke in five different places. So they had insurance with full replacement
cost if totaled. They filed a claim but it was denied because the claim
adjuster saw some rust, but the photos show that the brakes were bright and
fresh. You could tell it just broke with no rust. So they denied the claim.
They tried to find an attorney to assist them. Couldn’t find anybody to deal
with the insurance company. Is it something where you guys would step in a
little harder?
Courtney Wooge:
That is a great point. We have our own claims manager on
staff, and in those sticky situations, I have gotten involved in some sticky
situations. Some that were really, really sticky, but yes. That’s where I’m
going to pat the independent agent channel a little bit on the back. Not just
me. We try and advocate in those cases, so obviously I’m not going to say no to
that. “Sorry man, you’re on your own,” but my history would speak for
itself if you want to ask people that have had claims with us that have been
sticky.
Whoever
you bought that through, if it was direct, again, good luck. But if it was
through an agent, I would kindly ask them that, “Hey, can you ask this to
be reviewed by a claims manager and somebody at the carrier?” Have it be
reviewed by somebody at a higher level, because if you feel you’ve been wronged
there, there’s no harm in asking for a manager to review all that. And that’s
what I would do is ask the adjuster who their manager is and just
professionally say, “I want your leader to review this,” and then I’m
going to go up the ladder as high as I can depending on the circumstance.
Brandon Hatcher:
So you got to pull the old, “Can I speak to the
manager?”
Courtney Wooge:
That’s right. That’s exactly right. And there’s another
way of course. I could go in my sales contacts, and we have from a sales side a
large pool with Escapee members and a large book of business that we have in
the RV world. That I think does give some merit to, okay, well this guy appears
to be fighting here, because he’s an RV insurance specialist and he appears to
be worth his time. So that’s without getting in too much of the weeds, that what
I would do and that’s what I would ask you to do is ask your agent to ask for
the manager on the claim side.
Brandon Hatcher:
Then Andre has a question. They’re about to pick domicile
for tax purposes. It seems that that’s the primary factor rather than insuring
the RV, but there any other things to watch out for?
Courtney Wooge:
Yep. Here’s my shameless disclaimer that if any of you
know Shawn Loring who’s the CEO of Escapees who’s an attorney. Him and I go
back and forth a lot, but I am not an attorney, nor am I a CPA, so there are a
lot of things done in the RV world that come by a lot of advice of the attorney
and your CPA. So what I would say is, we can get you an insurance that’s
registered in any state and that you garage it in any state. Are there
different factors with rate? Yeah, absolutely. But I think you need to pick a
domicile that makes sense to you on rate. Where you want to vote, where you can
prove that you’re in that state.
Brandon Hatcher:
I can channel my inner Shawn and K. Susie Adams from
Loring and Associates that domicile is all about intent also. So you’re
declaring your intent that when your big crazy RV journey’s over, that’s where
I want to live. Now, you can change your mind, because we’re free to change our
minds, but also it should be a place that you’re going to travel through, a
place you’re going to set up bank accounts, and a place you want to vote and
you’re probably going to maybe want to have a doctor there. Do as much as you
can to make it look like this is where you want to live.
I do
know we had our own reasons for switching from Texas to Florida, but one of the
things I did in that decision was I looked at registration fees on my vehicles,
I looked at renewal fees on my vehicles, and I looked at all my insurances. My
health insurance, my auto insurance, my RV insurance, life insurance, all that
stuff, and ran it by the ZIP codes just to see if it made sense. Because we
were already domiciled in Texas. We didn’t have to move, but we kind of wanted
to move to Florida, and then the numbers also worked in our favor so it made it
easy.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah Andre, the insurance guy usually comes third from the
CPA. You highlighted tax purposes. People care about how much tax position they
have. Then their attorney to figure out how they intend to domicile, and then
of course the lowly insurance man like me usually gets that information and
then provides you the premium options. But premium on insurance is usually not
as big as some tax and some legal ramifications. But it does play. I mean
health insurance is a lot to people right now, and those premiums are quite
high and I don’t sell a lot of health insurance. I only have Iowa as an option.
There are other specialists in this world that is licensed nationwide for health.
I am not. I just do P&C nationwide, so I understand that is a big deciding
factor, like you mentioned, Brandon.
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, that was our major motivation, because we were self
employed and we needed to be insured, or we wanted to be insured, so we needed
to go where we could get it. Back to RV insurance, Debbie has a question. Do
you recommend a rider for an e-bike? Those are very popular and fairly spendy
nowadays.
Courtney Wooge:
Yep. So that actually goes into personal property. It’s
not a rider per se. It is an endorsement I guess is the terminology on your RV
policy to add to the personal effects, because you’re attaching it or you’re
carrying it, and yeah, if that e-bike was damaged or walked away, how would you
feel about that? What’s the value of it? If it’s a $1,000 e-bike and you want
to insure that, absolutely. We’ll add it as an additional $1,000 to your
emergency expense, we’ll take a picture of it, and put it in the file.
Brandon Hatcher:
Cool. I’m not seeing anymore questions, if anybody wants
to drop one real quick. Do you have anything more you want to tell us about the
exciting world of insurance?
Courtney Wooge:
Well, aside from everything else going crazy in this
world, I’ve never seen such a dip and then all of the dealers are telling me
they can’t get anything on their lot anymore. I mean, people are understanding
what I’ve always known in my life, and you too, Brandon, that RVing is cool,
and this is an absolute way to travel and to control your own destiny, and I
think it’s great to see and I just want to be the person to educate you because
the last thing people think about, unfortunately sometimes, is insurance. So
the more of those of you that are on this call or viewing this spread the word
that hey, there is options for RV insurance out there. Again, my whole solemn
thing in this world is, look at an RV specialist. Whether it’s me or somebody
else in the United States. There are a few of us that do it very well. Try to
get educated by an actual RV insurance specialist, because you will be happy at
claim time that you at least took that step.
Brandon Hatcher:
Go ahead.
Courtney Wooge:
I was just going to say that the full-timer community and
the conversion community are two of the ones that seek that education.
Brandon Hatcher:
You mentioned quickly earlier that you can change your
policy from full-time to part-time. A question just came in from Danny about
can you drop it down if you’re storing for several months?
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, so you again, depending on the state and I’ll give
some examples here. You can take off liability if you’re not driving it and
collision, because you’re not driving it. You want to leave comprehensive on in
the event something happens to it, but in some states you have to report your
insurance to the DMV, right? And if you pull liability off, they’re going to
report that to the DMV, and then the DMV, guess what they’re going to do.
They’re going to ask for your license plates and your registration. So now when
you want to drive it, you’ve got to start that whole process again to get
plates and register and all those things.
So
here’s what I would say. If you’re truly going to store it for more than three
or four months, and I always say six months. If you’re truly going to put it in
storage because your situation has changed, and you’re going to go to a cabin
and there’s no way on God’s green earth you’re going to get back in that RV in
six months, that’s intent and that’s a good example. But if you’re just going
to put it in storage and there’s a chance, don’t risk the insurance. For the
$75 you might save, to me as an agent, I may be talking out of turn but it’s
just simply not worth it. Because I’ve seen examples where we take those things
off, you put it in storage, and you’re excited to go on a trip, and you fire
the thing up, and you were just going to drive it two blocks, and that’s when
something happens.
Brandon Hatcher:
Right. It always happens close to home.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. Darwin’s Law or whatever law that is. Newton’s Law,
or whatever.
Brandon Hatcher:
Murphy’s Law.
Courtney Wooge:
Murphy’s Law. Whatever it is. Can you save money? Yes. Do
I recommend it? Only if your intent is truly to leave it in storage for a
finite amount of time.
Brandon Hatcher:
Alright. We have a couple questions related. One relates
back to the e-bike, but then also Andre has a question about carrying a
motorcycle on a rack on the rear of the RV. Any advice there? And it looks like
you’ve got a sleeper agent in the chat, Jackie Richardson.
Courtney Wooge:
Ah, right on. Yeah, she’s my marketing manager. Is she
correcting me?
Brandon Hatcher:
No, no. She’s just chiming in and helping to answer as
well.
Courtney Wooge:
Awesome. Hey Jackie. To Andre’s question, here’s what I
would say. If your motorcycle, you would almost behoove yourself to put a
policy on that motorcycle. Just like when you pull a toad. If you’ve got a 650
and it’s a nice motorcycle and it has some value, I would recommend, let’s put
a policy on that motorcycle. They’re not very expensive, and let’s just insure
that motorcycle standalone. But yes, if you’re driving the motor home and your
motorcycle comes off and damages something else, that would fall as a liability
from your RV that was attached and because you hit a bump and it wasn’t
attached, just like your toad, your liability would extend to that.
Brandon Hatcher:
So same for the e-bike. If the e-bike falls off the rack,
same thing.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. Same thing as your air conditioner wasn’t affixed
right and that thing came undone and plopped right down and hit something.
Anything that falls off your RV. If you throw your spouse out the window and
your spouse lands on something, you may have more problems than insurance, but
… I don’t recommend doing that if you’re going over two miles an hour.
Brandon Hatcher:
Rick has a question here. Let’s see. They’re getting a
domicile in Florida to show local insurance. They’re Escapees, Escapers
members, and they work in Tennessee, so the RV and toad are mostly going to be
in Tennessee.
Courtney Wooge:
Yep. Let’s see here, so they’re domiciled in Florida but
throughout their policy year, the coach is going to be mostly in Tennessee?
Brandon Hatcher:
Let’s assume yes.
Courtney Wooge:
That’s a Tennessee policy, but we need to show Florida as
the registration address.
Brandon Hatcher:
Okay. You would say it’s garaged in Tennessee?
Courtney Wooge:
Correct. It’s garaged in Tennessee, and to suffice the
Florida DMV because it’s registered there, you need to show registration in
Florida. That’s why I say you can put three different addresses on an RV
policy. Where it’s rated on is mostly where it’s at garaged. You can also
register it in a different state, which in this case it’s happened and it’s very
common. Then again, the Escapees members know you can get your mail out of
Livingston.
Brandon Hatcher:
Right. Yeah, so that would be perfect.
Courtney Wooge:
Yep, and they’re all good questions.
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah. Insurance, you know, it’s not the most exciting
thing in the world but it’s important, and full-time, it’s everything we have
is with us, so I want to protect it.
Courtney Wooge:
Well, and we find the people that are excited to buy
insurance, it sounds corny, but it’s that full-timer. Because they’re like,
“I’m so glad I found an option that can speak my language, and oh, I can
put contents on there. Oh, I have full-timer’s liability.” It’s just a
good match, and those people, and we’re excited for them. That’s a dream of my
wife and I to go more than 150 nights in our RV, and as long as I can be in
this world I’m going to achieve that dream hopefully someday.
Brandon Hatcher:
Okay, Tim had one more question. He has an older ’98
Monaco Dynasty. He’s wondering if it’s worth it to even get any more insurance
than just liability.
Courtney Wooge:
Well, if you’re going to camp in it a lot Tim, then I
would say yes. Because then you need that campsite liability. When your jacks
are down and your awnings are out, if you’re somewhere and somebody comes
around to your campsite and pops their head on your awning and says, “Oh
Tim, this is your fault because you put your awning out. How dare you,”
and you get a letter from an attorney, your liability only coverage isn’t going
to cut it. You need that RV provision which has that campsite or vacation
liability baked in, which is basically your homeowner’s liability coverage when
you’re camping. So just based on that, I would but only you can make the
premium determination. If your liability-only policy is $200 and to put some of
the RV provisions on there is going to cost you $1,200, well I can’t write that
check for you. You have to manage that risk. Just know that liability only,
when you’re camping and that happens, that person can come after you personally.
Brandon Hatcher:
Then just circle back one more time, just for the folks
who showed up a little bit late. How long do insurance companies think you are
a full-timer? How many days on the road?
Courtney Wooge:
150. So it doesn’t matter how long you’re on the road. It
just matters how many days/nights you’re in the RV. If you’re just somewhere
when you’re not driving for six months, you’re still considered an RV. They
don’t care if you’re driving every single day, or if you’re sleeping in it in
Florida at a nice campsite and you’re using it, so it’s related to usage, but
anything more than 150 is what they consider a full-timer.
Brandon Hatcher:
That’s important to know.
Courtney Wooge:
And before we end that topic, there are two other usage categories.
There is 30 to 150 days, which most avid RVers are in. That’s the typical RV
policy you write, 30 to 150, and then you’ve got 30 and under. I call that the
weekend warrior. The person that has a family and maybe four, five, six times
in a summer they’ll get out on a weekend and use their trailer, use their motor
home. That’s 30 days or less, 30 to 150, and then you’ve got your full-timers,
and two categories of full-timers. 365 full-timer, and full-timer that uses it
over 150 but still has a sticks and bricks somewhere.
Brandon Hatcher:
Interesting. Yeah, we’re in the 365 category, but now
we’re about to change to that 30 to 150 category, for a short period of time.
Just until things cool down a little bit outside.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. Yeah, no pun intended. With the heat that’s coming
across, at least here in the Midwest.
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, exactly. So I’m sure Jackie is in the comments.
Jackie works for FCIS. Courtney might jump in the comments, so if there’s a few
more … Well there you go. Jackie just answered the other questions that were
coming in. I think we’ve talked about it pretty well. Danny said good job.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. Thanks, Danny. I’m so sad that I missed. I was
planning on going to Wyoming with my family and seeing everybody in, was it
Rock Springs? Is that where it was?
Brandon Hatcher:
Yep. Yep.
Courtney Wooge:
And like everybody else, I was-
Brandon Hatcher:
A couple weeks ago.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah, so 2021, hopefully I’ll get to see all you guys at
an Escapers rally, or Escapees. I want to start hitting more of those events as
my kids get older. I’ve got two out of the house now, and one is 16 and one is
8, so I may bring my daughter. As my 16 year old goes out of the house, we’ll
see. I mean this lifestyle is something I choose.
Brandon Hatcher:
[crosstalk 01:00:57] Escapers event. They might think
you’ve gone crazy.
Courtney Wooge:
Right.
Brandon Hatcher:
Before we finish here, how can they reach you?
Courtney Wooge:
Well, I stopped using smoke signals a couple years ago. I
used to respond to those, and it just got, there was too much smoke in the air.
So I’ve got a phone number to our office, and that is listed on the screen
there so 1-800-331-1520. 8:00 to 5:00 Central, and 9:00 to 4:00 Central on
Saturday is when you can get a hold of us by phone, and certainly
FCISInsurance.com is our main website, and if you’re looking just to put
information for us to quote, we’d love to do that for you, and that links up
from FCIS to RVAdvantage.com.
Brandon Hatcher:
See if I can … There. RVAdvantage.com.
Courtney Wooge:
There you go.
Brandon Hatcher:
Awesome, and let’s try to show myself again. Thanks for
coming and talking about insurance, and I think we need to do this again in the
future.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah.
Brandon Hatcher:
Let’s just start getting in those weeds. Let’s get weird.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. If we get in the dirt, that’s when I’m going to call
it over. We can do weeds. We just can’t do dirt.
Brandon Hatcher:
Nice. So there’s a couple more questions coming in, and I
bet you Jackie’s going to get them in the comments for you, and I just want to
remind everybody we do these talks every Wednesday at the same time. We do
different kinds of talks. Next Wednesday is going to be a virtual campfire, so
it’s going to be talking about some aspect of the club. Just sitting around the
virtual campfire because we can’t sit around the real campfire right now, and
until we can, this is what we’re doing. And the virtual campfires, I think
they’re going to live on for a long time. They were actually planned before all
this happened.
Courtney Wooge:
I’ve attend one or two of those, and Travis and Melanie
have been on. I think they run those, don’t they? They’ve been on lots of
those?
Brandon Hatcher:
Yeah, JP did the last one. Travis and Mel typically do
them. They’re traveling a little bit right now. Then last, I think it was week
before last, we did a virtual rig tour. We’re going to have kind of a happy
hour and I’m going to show how to make a cocktail. I think different people are
going to show how to make cocktails coming up maybe. Different little, you
know, just trying to keep it fun. Trying to keep the community together as much
as we can while we’re all apart. So, thanks for coming. Thanks everybody for
watching.
Courtney Wooge:
Yeah. Appreciate it, guys. Thanks Brandon. We’ll see you
guys down the road. Happy trails.